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Talk:GN-000 0 Gundam
Is there any definitive truth about Ribbons Almark being 0-Gundam's actual original pilot? Last time i checked that was an unconfirmed gossip and it was someone else. Until I see references, I'm likely going to revert materials after this. I've changed the name of the armaments to fit the spelling in the HG Type ACD Manual.None of the even have the word GN in it.I would think this counts as a reliable source.-SonicSP The prototype 0-Gundam HG manual is released recently and contains some info on the wings of light also knows as GN Feathers.I've added the info on the page.Thanks to CA from animesuki for translating the page. Here's a link to the picture of the section that has the info: http://www.imagebeast.net/images/rdmkvw8acl7lgu98c9l.jpg By the way,I think the Trans-Am section needs to be modified,it presumes that the 0-Gundam can use Trans-Am without any possible hiccups and sounds too factual.It needs to be more speculative in nature since we never saw the 0-Gundam suit itself use Trans-Am.Since its a very early prototype suit,the suit iteself possibly may be unable to handle the Trans-Am. As an example,00 Gundam itself was not able to handle Trans-Am on its own so the possibility that 0 Gundam may not is certainly there,considering its a very early prototype,we need to consider the possbility at least. I suggest the Trans-Am section to be made more speculative in nature. SonicSP 17:10, September 6, 2009 (UTC) I think its a real possibility that 0 Gundam is capable of Trans Am. Everything we have seen about the Trans Am indicates that it is a feature of the GN Drives not the Gundams. Also we don't know a lot about the GN Drives such as when or where they were built. What we do know is that not a single member of Celestial Being (current or former) knew of the system's existence. So the CB engineers couldn't have likely built the machines to handle a system that they didn't know existed. So why can't the same be true for the 0 Gundam? Also the reason 00 Gundam couldn't handle Trans Am was because it caused the Twin Drive system to destabilize. Although it is possible that the basic plans for the Gundams development were stored in Veda by Aeolia 200 year ago and he had planned it so that only the the 3rd generation machines and above could use Trans Am but that is just wild speculation with no evidence to back it up. :-the 0 Gundam is an older frame machine than the other Gundams. 00 could not handle trans Am because the Twin Drive was making too much particles for it to handle all of it with the increased output according to Ian in S2 episode 8. Its not a matter of the GN Drive cannot use it but a matter of the frame being able to handle it because of the particle volume especially on an older unused frame, and there is no way how the results would go without actually ttesting it since the 0 Gundam is the only First Generation Gundam. The other possible issue is Condensers (the 0 Gundam does not have any normal ones, the HG manual even says that the gun directly sources its particles from the Drive because it has no Condensers), which the Gundam sources alot of the particles from the Condensers in non Twin Drive suits. (but more on the Drives in a Twin Drive because its output rate is much higher than the Condenser content). It will have to source its Trans Am only from the increased GN Drive output, however it remains to be seen how the result will turn out. -SonicSP 17:21, August 31, 2010 (UTC) Need Translation of 00P Article Someone please translate this and add it to the article, thanks. Wasabi 04:47, September 25, 2009 (UTC) :Are your referring to this pic here? Its from 00V instead od of 00P. I think we pretty much have all of it in the article already. -SonicSP 17:54, September 28, 2010 (UTC) Missing Captions Usually there would be a commentary on the bottom of each pic, but i noticed 0 Gundam is missing them, someone please add them back in. Wasabi 20:20, October 6, 2009 (UTC) :The commentary is there, except it now appears, in a popup, upon mouse over of the image, i believe :~ Azkaiel 03:43, October 7, 2009 (UTC) ::Anyone not like having them as a mouseover? i thought they were just wasting space since the previous mouseover was just the name of the file. Simant 16:46, October 7, 2009 (UTC) Truth be told they'd be more visible if they were under imagesYessMasster 00:06, January 17, 2010 (UTC) Definitive Weapons List Guys, anyone got a definitive list of 0 Gundam's weapons? I keep getting conflicting data that it's main gun is a GN Beam Gun or a GN Rifle; which one is it? Wasabi 14:56, July 5, 2010 (UTC) :If you want the Bandai's side of the argument, it's Beam Gun, with no (GN). Even the beam saber is just Beam saber. :EDITED: Google Dalong, there's some scans of manuals there. They would help. :Bronx01 17:07, July 5, 2010 (UTC) Separate Page for ACD colors Editors, I have a slight issue with the separation of the 0 Gundam rollout colors and the ACD colors. I don't think they should be separate pages since the only change besides the powerplant is the colors. I think there should be a new standard for variant pages. I have come up with four criterion for creating variant pages *It must have a new model number *The powerplant has to have been altered * Must have some physical alterations to the original design *The weaponry may or may not remain as is Those are some points that I have come up with, feel free to add in your own.Gaeaman788 22:58, August 30, 2010 (UTC) :At the same time though, it does get an add on name. Its as significant as Astraea Type F, who even though gets an add on to the model number, also only got the color change to it. Its also designed to be used in real combat Celestial Being combat as opposed to just weapon tests. :If you look closely at the FA 0 Gundam, you will also see that it was designed in the same timeframe and was meant to be used with the Type ACD as well. It also gets a different designated pilot in Lasse until it fatefully returns to Ribbons. It may not be that much, but I personally see enough reason to keep it separate but its just my take though. -SonicSP 17:12, August 31, 2010 (UTC) ::I'm inclined to agree with Gaeaman. Not just in this case. He has proposed a set of guidelines that are very reasonable. This wiki has been very informal but some consensus on how to lay out a page on what should or should not constitute a new page could be very useful. I vote that the ACD remain a mere mention in the main page. If not, why shouldn't we have a page for Exia's rollout colors? What about a page dedicated to the MS that ultimately became the Masurao?--Nkuzmik 03:59, September 1, 2010 (UTC) :::Actually, a page dedicated to the pre Masurao sounds like a good idea if we had some more hard data on it. Although we do know that it was deveoped by the standard HRL team that makes the Ahead and 2nd Mechanics mentioned it was a Trans Am project even before Billy entered it. After Billy and the Union team took over the project though, they modifed it more towards Flag engineering at later stages. :::For me the 0 Gundam Type ACD uses a different powerplant system that is both inferior and superior from its original in circumstance. The Celestial Being's Condenser Tank modification makes it a much different weaker unit than the original. At the same time, Ribbons's custom modification of the unit with 00's cone is a superior unit to the original since it does not have the inferior cone design that wastes particles with the inefficient GN Feather ability. The type designation was also meant to illustrate the different nature of the suit in nature since its meant to be used in real warfare missions as opposed to the pure prototype of the first one which are used in experimental and weapon field tests; its not just a simple change in color. Exia Rollout colors on the other hand has little spec differences from the normal Exia, nor does it have a different designated role than the Exia did as far as we know. :::I think we need one for Exia Repair as well, since it fits most of the criteria Gaeman proposed with the exception of the powerplant. It has a different model number, different name, very different physical appearence and different weaponry, which are mere salvage of Exia's sword. And some minor modification and repairs like the addition of the Tieren's eyes to replace one of the old one.-SonicSP 05:00, September 1, 2010 (UTC) ::::I was unlcear in my earlier comment about the early Masurao. I mentioned it specifically because of the dearth of information. You cite the switch from a GN drive with an early model cone to the particle storage tank as one reason for the separate page. I submit that change was little more than a swap of interchangable components, in some ways, a less difficult task than changing the paint job. Recall that in early S2, Ian mentions that they had attempted to bring 00 Gundam online using every permutation of the available GN Drives. This combined with the evidence given in Rebirth very strongly suggests that Celestial Being uses a standard interface, between the GN Drive and the mobile suit thus facilitating the mating of a GN Drive and cone taken from a Gen 4 Gundam onto a Gen 1 unit. I say that it strongly suggests this because it is implied that battle was joined between 0 and Exia happened relatively soon after the final clash of 00 and Reborns. No more than a couple of hours, and as little as 30 minutes. This timeframe is too compressed for Ribbons to design and fabricate components to adapt dissimilar hardware, even with Veda's help. ::::Based on the aforementioned points, I posit not only are the GN Drives interchangable between CB Gundams(00 Gundam's twin drive, notwithstanding), but a particle storage tank could easily be fitted to any CB Gundam. If my suppositions are in fact accurate, then the switching from GN Drive to storage tank is merely a matter of swapping out modular componets. ::::SonicSP suggests that other substantive changes were made to 0 Gundam, taking it from a test bed to a combat ready unit. I am unaware of any evidence to validate that claim. ::::SonicSP also notes that the Type ACD is given a unique designation. This is a fact I do not dispute. I am of the personal belief that it was given a unique designation to allow the sale and marketing of an additonal piece of merchandice. ::::Gaeaman is onto something with his proposed list of criteria. I would wish to clarify, must a prospective variant meet all of those guidelines? What about Deathscythe and Deathscythe Hell. Certainly these are two VERY different mobile suits, but they are implied to use the same powerplant. :::: ::::The implication that CB's drives are interchangable is interesting. But if they had Exia's drive before they made the two new ones, why not give Exia's drive to Raphael, which has a Tau Drive? Well, the answer to that question is probably that CB would have had to make 2 Twin Drive MS, and would have taken time and resources that CB did not have. Actually, speaking of Twin Drive, I have a separate question that I'm putting on the Trans-Am discussion page. It's essentially "If Alejandro hadn't killed Aeolia during Season 1, would the Innovation of humans and the upcoming dialogues never have happened?"Gaeaman788 23:15, September 10, 2010 (UTC) ::::The ideas that I keep coming back to are "substantive changes," and "more than 2 or 3 sentences." Those two ideas can be somewhat conflicting at times. To keep using Gundam Wing, lets look at Heavyarms and Heavyarms Kai. On one hand the changes were quite substantive. Namely a multitude of structural modifications to support the mounting of a 6-axis reaction control system for operations in micro-gravity or freefall environments. Including but not limited to mounting points for the vernier system, structural reinforcement(if needed), relocation of internal componets accomodate said verniers as well as fuel lines and a fuel tank. Then there is the replacement of the single beam gattling with a pair of shell firing gattlings with independently steerable mountings, and the improvements to the targeting systems, both hardware and software to accomodate the new weapons. :::On the other hand, I could also say that Heavyarms Kai is just Heavyarms retrofitted with verniers for zero-G combat and equiped with independently targetable double shelel firing gattlings instead of the old single beam gattling. ::::I mention the host of implied changes to point out that a writer can fluff out an article. ::::I would suggest that length of service may be a consideration. I say "consideration" because so many times writers will introduce a suite in the last few episodes. Exia Repair can be distinguished from other mobile suits that have been damaged because it continued to operate in that damaged state for a prolonged period of time. Contrast with the Archangel from SEED and SEED Destiny. Yes the Archangel got the stuffing kicked out of it multiple times, but in all cases, the repairs were made relatively promptly. Within a few episodes of viewer time or days to weeks of story time. Exia Repair operated in a bodged state for 4 years. ::::Exia R2 also warrants a page of its own because there are a number of changes to the weapons and power distribution system. ::::--Nkuzmik 14:34, September 1, 2010 (UTC) :::: ::::My reason for bringing up the topic in the first place was that 0 Gundam ACD, besides the color and powerplant change, has no truly significant differences from the original 0 Gundam. The same could be said for the 00 Gundam Seven Sword/G since it only adds the GN Sword II Blaster to the original Seven Sword arsenal, but the powerplant and the unit number is different. The Exia Repair can keep its own page since the design is significantly altered from the original Exia and its weapons have been drastically reduced. Other websites, such as MAHQ, have both the original 0 Gundam and the ACD colors as the same suit. my only issue is that two things changed which don't make the 0 Gundam a completely different Gundam. I'll clarify the criteria soonGaeaman788 15:42, September 1, 2010 (UTC) * One thing about ACD type is, it later got GN drive back without modification need. This pretty much mean it's same old one with new paint job. *sacrasm mode* What's next we will seperate? One eye Andrew Waltfeld with sunglass and arm cannon? AEU Enact Katharon color? Hey, it gets a different designate pilots too! Kuruni 16:09, September 1, 2010 (UTC) Okay, as we wait for Gaeaman, just nitpicking something... Using the time frame in the episode doesn't equal the actual time frame though. So, we can't really use that as actual evidence. --Bronx01 17:10, September 1, 2010 (UTC) : :Sir, I take issue with your nitpicking. *sarcasam mode* If you are going to nitpick, do so properly. First you attack the medium, then you attack the message. The structure of the first sentence you quoted is patently flawed. The clause "(battle) was joined between..." clearly obviates the need for the subsequent inclusion of the intransitive verb, "happened." This redundant and unnecessary of two constructs representing the verb, "to be," speaks directly to the inferior ability of the writer. :Who is wrote that drivel anyway? : :Oh, right that was me. Nevermind. : :And for the record, I conced to Bronx. The nothing I presented can be construed as evidence of elapsed in-story time. :Nkuzmik 16:19, September 2, 2010 (UTC) : :Lol when did this become English 101? Anyways, I'm only taking up issue with this because there are tons of other sites that list the 0 Gundam rollout and ACD as the same suit, despite their different powerplants (sort of) and color change. Here's a perfect example of what I'm getting at...I think. Go to the RX-78NT-1 Gundam "Alex" page. You see the suit in its unarmored form and with the Full Chobham Armor. When the Alex takes on the Chobham Armor, the model number and the name changes to RX-78NT1FA Full Armor Gundam "Alex". Even though the model number changes and the look of the suit changes, the weaponry change isn't drastic enough to warrant a separate page. It can still use the beam rifle, vulcans, and beam sabers, it just can't use the gatling guns in its forearms. The 0 Gundam doesn't have a change in model number, in the end its still powered by a GN Drive, and it basically looks the same except more colorful. So, going along the premise of the Alex, the 0 Gundam shouldn't have two separate pages just because the HG has two separate model kits. : :In concern to Exia, The Repair and Repair 2 keep their pages because the model number changed and the armament is significantly different. The Repair only has the GN Sword while the Repair II has the GN Sword Kai, vulcans, and beam sabers. So sorry it took so long to respond I'm back at college and stuff. Also, Nkuzmik, your point of all of the GN Drives being interchangable is sketchy at best. Since in 00V Celestial Being had Exia's drive installed on the 00 Seven Sword/G, and that none of the other three drives got 00 to work initially, this implies that each drive is built specific to each Gundam. : :Another example to say that the GN Drives are dependent on the Gundam, is during S1 when Allelujah is talking to Tieria about Nadleeh and mentions that it doesn't have much particle space. Well actually, you could say that Virtue has a ton of GN Condensers built into it for the large particle blasts it makes. The specifics on each drive must have to do with where the power is relayed to. : Gaeaman788 22:57, September 10, 2010 (UTC) :::The GN Drive core units are pretty much interchangeable as single units. 0 Gundam's GN Drive got moved around alot as did Kyrios too for a short while. Their job it to generate power, nothing is fundamentally different about each of them as far as the cores are concern and there has never been any mention or implied of difference in performance in any of them as far as each individual core goes with one another (Chassis technology is improved over time though, but this happens to all of them after each generation). Also 007SG did not used Exia's Drive.........because it was already destroyed by then being one of the two Drives that got destroyed. Even for 00, the other Drives failed because of their incompatible topological defect properties with each other rather than any specific relation to the frame specifically. The 0 Gundam and Exia in this case happens to have the best TD chemistry pairing for the Twin Drive synchronisation to work. :::I also do not see how what Al said is relevant to all this either. Virtue does have alot of Condensers and it was designed like this so it can make use of its high particle consumption but its Drive is still the same as the others with the same output. It just takes more time to charge the Condensers to full it has to charge them more often as well. Specific needs of each specific machine is designed into the actual machine (like Virtue being more of a power hog and is given more Condensers), rather than into the Drive core. -SonicSP 18:32, September 11, 2010 (UTC) GN Arms Mention Not the first time this subject has come up, but I was wondering the appropriateness of mentioning the GN Arms? I know the article mentions the vagueness of the compatibility, but I was wondering if the mention should be omitted together. This is not to say that its definitely incompatible (while I personally think it is not, nothing specifically says it isnt) but considering that the two machines are very rarely " symbolically associated" with each other, I wonder if we should just not mention it since they rarely have been associated. Combined with the fact that even the 3rd Generations machines had to have specialized customised GN Arms for the units that indeed used them, I wonder if its appropriate to even mention the possibility of compatibility here. For example, the GN Arms is rarely associated with even the 3.5/4 Generation and while the compatibility for them is sort of not defined either, we do not mention it in their articles due those two machines not being symbolically associated. What do you guys think? -SonicSP 01:53, March 10, 2011 (UTC) Well since I was the one who wrote it, I mind as well throw in my reasons: I simply wanted to add in what could be used for 0 Gundam in battle. There's also the GN Sefer matter as well, since it was featured in earlier articles that the back-pack addition can be utilized, but not officially recognized nor explained about its relativity to 0 Gundam in full definition. As for the rest of the article, I merely mentioned them as support and combat relief units; even though 0 Gundam was revised in the story, it was never proven was it configured to adapt to external armor than the Full Armor Pack; its why i intentionally mentioned it is defined. In hindsight, in all major points of history 0 Gundam, the additional equipment was either not invented yet or engineers had already moved on; I'll remove the article piece myself, but that section will be inserted to other pages. Tell me if you have issue with those in the future. Taikage - Admin 02:27, March 10, 2011 (UTC) :What pages do you have in mind? -SonicSP 03:22, March 10, 2011 (UTC) The ones that actually had them. I'll get to them later. Taikage - Admin 09:12, March 19, 2011 (UTC) So...........This Page Looks Weird Hmmm..........the page is looking very weird to me for some reason. -SuperSonicSP 06:30, May 6, 2011(UTC) :Are you referring to the template? because thats the new template that SimAnt is working on. If it something else, then take a screenshot. -Dav7d2 - I am Bronx01's mistress! :D 06:33, May 6, 2011 (UTC) No, its definitely the templete I'm not getting anything weird from the other pages that are still using the normal ones. A lot of words are highlighted red even though under the old templete coding it should be normal text black. Some categories are giving weird large spaces (in this case, the pilot position box). Its okay if its still in progress then, since this would not be how it would like final one. Good luck with the work. Will it only be able to show one image at a time though? (I'm aware that it can switch) How many pictures can it switch between at max? (the older one display up to 3 max at once I think, with no switching options available) -SuperSonicSP 06:35, May 6, 2011 (UTC) Did 0 Gundam really use Gundam Exia's GN Drive? According to the GN Drive article in this wiki, that 0 Gundam used the Exia's GN Drive while while Exia REII used 0's original GN Drive in the final episode of 00 Season 2, but the two Gundams' articles contained the phrase "back with its original Drive". I don't know which info is true as the three seperate articles are confusing me now. Smackdown599 13:41, June 6, 2011 (UTC) : If the GN Drives of Exia and 0 haven't changed places eachother on the 00 Gundam since the episode 2 of the second season, then I think 0 did use Exia's GN Drive and Exia Repair II 0's GN Drive. HPZ - O.N.E. 14:13, June 6, 2011 (UTC) :There seems to be far more evidence that suggests that they were switched. The way the scene was potrayed in S2 episode 2 suggests that as HPZ mentioned. Further evidence of this comes from the PG 00 Raiser's Drive labeling.http://img816.imageshack.us/img816/3/p12cm0030.jpg Based on this configuration, they should be switched since Exia R2 got the right shoulder (Note: right from 00's POV) Drive while 0 Gundam ACD got the left shoulder Drive. The other two articles are unupdated to reflect this info. :From time to time, usually somebody changes back the info from the "GN Drive" article to reflect the old info, despite the fact that I keep the Episode 2 and a direct image link to this manual as citations next to it. :The only counter to this info is the way the way 00 was presented in S2 episode 1, however its important to know that the finalized 00 was presented only in episode 2 with the current suggested config (aka Ian changed the positioning for whatever reason). We have enough sources in my opinion to treat the switch like a fact now, especially since 00's debut scene in episode 2 was unedited even in the second Special Edition Movie or DVD released. -SuperSonicSP 14:26, June 6, 2011 (UTC)